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Driverless

A podcast that analyzes legal issues surrounding autonomous vehicles.

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Preparing for the Future of Transportation: Automated Vehicles 3.0

How are autonomous vehicles regulated in the United States? Is it the right approach? In the inaugural episode of DRIVERLESS, host Zach Adams speaks with product liability litigator Jonathan Feczko and business and transportation lawyer Tod Northman, both partners at Tucker Ellis, about “Preparing for the Future of Transportation: Automated Vehicle 3.0.” The Department of Transportation issued the latest guidance in early October 2018, and the trio dig into the document, establish the regulatory context for the guidance, and evaluate the ramifications of the DOT’s approach.  Drawing from their differing legal backgrounds, Zach, Jon and Tod assess who won with the document, who lost, and what issues were not adequately addressed. They also discuss why the federal government has taken the approach it has, despite legitimate concerns raised by safety and privacy advocates.

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References

Show Notes

  • 1:10 – Best of AV 3.0
  • 3:45 – What’s Missing?
  • 5:42 – Cybersecurity and Privacy
  • 8:55 – Regulatory Landscape
  • 11:00 – Winners
  • 15:07 – Human Drivers for the Win
  • 20:47 – Federal Support for the AV Industry
  • 22:50 – Impact of Guidance on State and Local Governments
  • 25:43 – AV Safety
  • 31:20 – Big Auto Meets Big Data
  • 37:09 – Information Gathering

What Legal Standard Should Apply to Autonomous Vehicles?

Tucker Ellis product liability litigators Zach Adams and Jon Feczko are joined by Marc Hoag, a California lawyer, podcaster, entrepreneur and AV consultant, as they reason through the applicable legal standard, and related legal issues, for autonomous vehicles. Marc’s podcast “Autonomous Cars with Marc Hoag” is the number one search result in Google for autonomous vehicle podcasts. But it is the combination of Marc’s legal and engineering training with his knowledge of autonomous vehicles that makes him the perfect guest to talk through these matters with Zach and Jon.

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How Autonomous Vehicles Will Reshape Our Cities

In a wide-ranging discussion, that includes a fascinating history of failed transportation revolutions, host Zach Adams, intellectual property litigator Jay Campbell and business lawyer Tod Northman discuss how autonomous vehicles will change our cities. From pocket calculators to Segway, high hopes for technology have produced disappointment. From autonomous vehicles, to ride sharing, to electric scooters, there is a lot of publicity about – and tremendous money behind – the mobility revolution. Will this time be different?

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Resources

“~$1 Trillion of Real Estate Is On the Move,” January 2018 (Phil Levin author)

“Airports Cracked Uber and Lyft – Time For Cities to Take Note”, Nov. 20, 2018 (Aarian Marshall author)

“Cars and Second Order Consequences,” March 29, 2017 (Benedict Evans author)

“Minneapolis Moves to Eliminate Mandatory Parking,” Dec. 12, 2018 (Angie Schmitt author)

“No Parking Here”, January/February 2016 (Clive Thompson author)

“Segways Are Back (Sort Of),” August 30, 2018 (Jackie Endres author)

Show Notes

1:32 What changes will autonomous vehicles bring?

7:17 Past efforts have failed. Will this time be different?

11:09 The first signs of change in cities

13:45 As the need for parking spaces wanes, building shapes will change

17:24 First, second, and third order changes

18:46 AV further stresses the economics of mass transit

21:59 Follow the money

24:01 Challenges to AV implementation

Ethical Dilemmas Raised by Autonomous Vehicles Part 1

Proponents of autonomous vehicles tout myriad possible benefits ranging from dramatically increased safety to increased mobility for people who are unable to drive; however, autonomous vehicles will not come without tradeoffs. In the first of a two-part discussion, Cleveland State University Professor Robert A. Simons, Tucker Ellis associate Jeffry Carr, and Tod Northman – a transactional lawyer at Tucker Ellis – discuss ethical challenges that AVs will raise as the technology improves.

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No Parking! Driverless vehicles’ effect on urban development

Driverless vehicles will reshape urban development. Robert A. Simons, Professor at the Maxine Goodman Levin College of Urban Affairs at Cleveland State University, delves into the myriad factors – such as drivers foregoing ownership of vehicles to use shared vehicles and reduce travel times – that will change parking and land use in America’s urban core. Professor Simons’s book, which covers both technical and behavioral issues arising from autonomous vehicles, is scheduled to be released in Spring 2020. He shares some of the salient lessons from his research with Tod Northman, a partner in the business group at Tucker Ellis and a co-founder of the autonomous vehicle and artificial intelligence technologies group. 

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Is Federal Regulation Necessary for the Deployment of Autonomous Vehicles in the United States?

Autonomous vehicle developers, such as GM and Waymo, have submitted comments to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) that encourage the agency to establish new guidelines for autonomous vehicles that lack a steering wheel and gas/brake pedals.  NHTSA asked automotive manufacturers and other autonomous vehicle technology companies to submit comments regarding changing regulations to include specific framework for AVs. In their comments, several commenters encouraged new rules for vehicles without a traditional steering wheel or brake and gas pedals.  Host Zach Adams, litigator Jon Feczko, and transactional lawyer Tod Northman discuss whether the absence of federal government regulation is delaying development.  Jon and Zach suggest that we wait for public support for AV increases; Tod believes that NHTSA’s continuing current work to promulgate regulation is critical.

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Resources

Karol, Thomas, National Association of Mutual Insurance Companies Comment to NHTSA Rulemaking, July 29, 2019 (MX-5070V_20190729_065141).

Karol, Tom, Validating Safety: The Next Phase in Developing Automated Driving Systems, NAMIC Advocacy, May 2018.

McEachern, Sam, GM Encourages NHTSA To Set New Safety Standards For AVs Without Controls.  

National Highway Transportation Safety Board, Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, Removing Regulatory Barriers for Vehicles With Automated Driving Systems
Show Notes, filed May 23, 2019.

Show Notes

1:20    First impressions of request for comment to proposed rulemaking
2:10    Considering the immediacy of NHTSA’s rulemaking
4:27    Will public sentiment impact rule making?
6:50    Role of comments in educating legislators and rulemakers
9:23    Distinguishing between legislation and rulemaking
11:49    Does autonomous vehicle development depend on NHTSA promulgating new rules?
21:45    Critiquing the safety case for autonomous vehicles 

How Novel Is Tort Liability for Autonomous Vehicles? – Part 2

In this episode of Driverless, Tod Northman and Emmanuel Sanders continue their discussion with Professor Mark Geistfeld, the Sheila Lubetsky Birnbaum Professor of Civil Litigation at the NYU School of Law, about his groundbreaking performance-based approach to liability for and regulation of Autonomous Vehicles. Professor Geistfeld discusses the “regulatory sweet-spot” for Autonomous Vehicles, and the kinds of claims manufacturers and programmers can expect during this wave of Autonomous Vehicle deployment. Professor Geistfeld further addresses the “bystander problem” and suggests that the problem is not unique to Autonomous Vehicles, but one that transcends all areas of tort.

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Further Reading

Mark Geistfeld, “A Roadmap for Autonomous Vehicles: State Tort Liability, Automobile Insurance, and Federal Safety Regulation,” 105 Cal. L. Rev. 1611 (2017)
Mark Geistfeld, “The Regulatory Sweet Spot for Autonomous Vehicles,” 53 Wake Forest L. Rev. 101 (2018).
Mark Geistfeld, “How Liable Should Driverless-Car Companies Be for Accidents?,” Time, Apr. 16, 2018, at 13.
Mark Geistfeld, Tort Law and Alternatives: Cases and Materials (Foundation Press 10th ed., 2016) (with Marc A. Franklin, Robert L. Rabin and Michael D. Green).
Mark Geistfeld, Products Liability Law (Wolters Kluwer Law & Business, 2012),
Mark Geistfeld, Principles of Products Liability (Foundation Press; Thomson Reuters 2d., 2011; 1st ed., 2006).
Mark Geistfeld, Tort Law: The Essentials (Wolters Kluwer Law & Business; Aspen Publishers, 2008).
Professor Geistfeld’s biography

Show Notes

0:41    Benefits of federal regulation over regulation by tort.
5:30    Regulatory performance standards promote safety and innovation. 
8:41    Exposure to liability based on claims by AV manufacturers/countering user complacency.  
12:36    Appropriate standard for liability with regard to monitoring driver complacency. 
14:40    Issues relating to commercial car sharing. 
16:31    Claims by passengers in AVs against manufacturers.
17:21    Manufacturer/programmer liability to bystanders.

How Novel Is Tort Liability for Autonomous Vehicles? – Part 1 of 2

On this episode of Driverless Tod Northman and Emmanuel Sanders interview Professor Mark Geistfeld, the Sheila Lubetsky Birnbaum Professor of Civil Litigation at the NYU School of Law, about his groundbreaking performance-based approach to liability for and regulation of Autonomous Vehicles. Professor Geistfeld discusses the shortcomings of earlier approaches to Autonomous Vehicle liability, and the benefits of adopting a commonsense, performance-based approach. Professor Geistfeld further advocates for adoption of a performance-based regulatory framework, which will provide certainty to manufacturers and users of Autonomous Vehicles without hampering the innovation and improvement of this life-saving technology. 
 

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Further Reading

Mark Geistfeld, “A Roadmap for Autonomous Vehicles: State Tort Liability, Automobile Insurance, and Federal Safety Regulation,” 105 Cal. L. Rev. 1611 (2017)
Mark Geistfeld, “The Regulatory Sweet Spot for Autonomous Vehicles,” 53 Wake Forest L. Rev. 101 (2018)
Mark Geistfeld, “How Liable Should Driverless-Car Companies Be for Accidents?,” Time, Apr. 16, 2018, at 13
Mark Geistfeld, Tort Law and Alternatives: Cases and Materials (Foundation Press 10th ed., 2016) (with Marc A. Franklin, Robert L. Rabin and Michael D. Green)
Mark Geistfeld, Products Liability Law (Wolters Kluwer Law & Business, 2012)
Mark Geistfeld, Principles of Products Liability (Foundation Press; Thomson Reuters 2d., 2011; 1st ed., 2006)
Mark Geistfeld, Tort Law: The Essentials (Wolters Kluwer Law & Business; Aspen Publishers, 2008)

Professor Geistfeld’s biography

Show Notes

1:34    Professor Geistfeld’s initial Interest in AV.
3:36    Misguided approach of other scholars – Rebuilding tort from the ground up. 
6:23    Misguided approach of other scholars – Analyzing AV from the perspective of traditional motor vehicle accidents (reasonable driver standard).  
8:35    Adopting a system-wide performance-based approach to AV liability. 
12:06    What standard do we use to compare relative safety of autonomous vehicles?
13:04    Adopting a performance-based approach to regulating AV.
15:4    The benefits of more robust performance-based regulation/The pitfalls of not adopting more robust federal regulation. 
19:51    Developing a standard for performance-based liability/regulation – Requiring AV to perform twice as safely as human drivers.

When Will Autonomous Vehicles Be Available for Purchase?

We flip the microphone on our podcast host Zachary Adams.  Miami litigator Francisco “Frank” Ramos, Jr., speaks with Zach on “A Conversation With,” Defense Research Institute’s podcast where Frank interviews lawyers about their practice.  Frank is a DRI member and a partner at Miami law firm Clarke Silverglate PA; he has written seven books about law and its practice and quickly digs into some of the most important questions about autonomous vehicles.  The format gives Zach the opportunity to step back from the detail we frequently cover to address big-picture questions about autonomous vehicles and the state of laws and regulations.  You also get to know Zach better.

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The Future of Smart Mobility

Kristin Slanina, Chief Transformation Officer (and long-time automotive engineer), and Mohammad Hamid, Special Advisor in the Emerging Technologies Group, both of Thirdware Solutions, delve into the future of smart mobility with host Zach Adams, a litigator at Tucker Ellis.  Kristin and Mo recently presented on the “The Business of Mobility” at the Automotive Futures Conference.  They are key members of the smart mobility team at Thirdware, which is a long-time automotive IT company.  Thirdware helps traditional automotive industry participants acclimate to the changing industry landscape, as traditional automotive companies seek ways to expand their revenue sources. 

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Resources

Thirdware Solution INC.

Kristin Slanina, (kristin.slanina@thirdware.com) biography 

Slanina, Kristin Schondorf, “Outmaneuvering disruption is the only way forward,” LinkedIn. (February 9, 2018)

Hamid, Mohammad (mohammad.hamid@thirdware.com) biography

Kristin Marie Slanina

Mohammad Hamid

Show Notes
1:45    Who is Thirdware?
3:30    Disruptive technologies in autonomous vehicles and new mobility
6:15    Ride sharing is the area of highest venture capital investment
8:05    What role will services play in the future of OEMs and Tier 1 suppliers?
11:05    Partnerships are to be critical in the future for OEMs and Tier 1 suppliers.
12:00    Time frame for investment returns needs to shift to a long-term horizon
15:45    To date, automotive companies have not been able to monetized
18:50    Partnerships and acquisitions have not yielded the hoped-for results
21:20    Leveraging data is the most promising business opportunity for OEM and Tier 1